Bill Meltzer: Meltzer's Musings: Murphy, Stralman and Defense Roster Building

Bill Meltzer: Meltzer's Musings: Murphy, Stralman and Defense Roster Building
- bmeltzer

Good read! The one thing I took from what Murphy said is that we don't want to rush our prospects which is good.

Nice to hear that one of Murphy's strengths is working with young defensemen. If it helps us get the most out of guys like Luke Schenn and our defensive prospects that's a big benefit that this team really needs.

Bill Meltzer: Meltzer's Musings: Murphy, Stralman and Defense Roster Building
- bmeltzer

It is about fit, absolutely. The Flyers defense isn't awful as individuals, but how they slot & what they have been and will be asked to do is an issue.

I do think they're spending too much money on the group as a whole, too. Even if the going rate for a guys like Schenn, Grossmann or MacDonald is what they are paying, it's far from ideal to be paying that much for three 4/5 defensemen, when the rest of the defense lacks a real number one guy

Bill,

I like Bogosian too. What type of pieces do you think WPG would want? Seems like they want to shake some things up so might be there year to make a deal with them. I woul assume it would have to be something like 1st rounder, prospect, roster player?

If signing Strålman would be an option, I would disregard Kimmo when considering the number of smaller D on the team since his days are numbered on this team. I would probably rather look at the prospect pool instead, but of course theres nothing certain that any of Ghost, Hägg, Morin or Alt will result in a top 4 D.

It is about fit, absolutely. The Flyers defense isn't awful as individuals, but how they slot & what they have been and will be asked to do is an issue.

I do think they're spending too much money on the group as a whole, too. Even if the going rate for a guys like Schenn, Grossmann or MacDonald is what they are paying, it's far from ideal to be paying that much for three 4/5 defensemen, when the rest of the defense lacks a real number one guy
- Jsaquella

The spending part is, imho, just a direct result of the cruddy work the Flyers have done drafting and developing Ds. Hopefully soon to be a thing of the past.

The spending part is, imho, just a direct result of the cruddy work the Flyers have done drafting and developing Ds. Hopefully soon to be a thing of the past.
- PhillySteen

The Pronger injury is a large part of the spending. And if you want to upgrade the defense and add a solid 2nd pair defenseman like MacDonald, it's going to cost the going rate.

The whole issue with defensemen who are not top pair talent is to make the most of the skills they have and learning to read and react better when defending.

The old cliche about the "wily veterans" is really about playing within yourself and not putting yourself in a position to get beat. Picking your spots etc.

That is probably a load of cliche and would spawn even more cliches but its a truth.
Especially for this group. They need to play the best they can within their abilities and not letting the rise of adrenalin in their heads/ears affect their decision making

The Pronger injury is a large part of the spending. And if you want to upgrade the defense and add a solid 2nd pair defenseman like MacDonald, it's going to cost the going rate.
- MJL

The Pronger injury was really a Franchise changer. He was still playing heavy minutes, was still playing at a high level and just seemed to get guys going. Unfortuantely the injury changed everything. Now the Flyers are trying to regroup. Everyone talks about "We need a number 1 dman". Well we had one. Tell me what other franchise would be perfect after they lost their number one. How would NSH look without Weber, LA without Doughty, CHI without Keith. And not just for games because you can make adjustments. For a seasons. That would cause every team to reshape their d. Just my humble opinion

The spending part is, imho, just a direct result of the cruddy work the Flyers have done drafting and developing Ds. Hopefully soon to be a thing of the past.
- PhillySteen

More to do with the injury to Pronger, after the cost to trade for him and subsequently trying to fill the hole left by him than anything. Flyers had far too many drafts where they sat idle until the third round.

While I understand why they have spent what they did, I disagree with some of the pieces they added. As Bill noted, after the loss to NJ, they loaded up on righty shooting defensemen...but trouble is, only Luke Schenn was capable of handling a top 6 role. That's what I mean when I say I question some of the decisions they make.

The Pronger injury was really a Franchise changer. He was still playing heavy minutes, was still playing at a high level and just seemed to get guys going. Unfortuantely the injury changed everything. Now the Flyers are trying to regroup. Everyone talks about "We need a number 1 dman". Well we had one. Tell me what other franchise would be perfect after they lost their number one. How would NSH look without Weber, LA without Doughty, CHI without Keith. And not just for games because you can make adjustments. For a seasons. That would cause every team to reshape their d. Just my humble opinion
- J35Bacher

It would cause a lot of teams to reshape things. But replacing Pronger with a bunch of lesser parts has left them with an expensive, but unspectacular defense that still needs a number one defenseman to anchor things. Maybe instead of trading three second rounders, three third rounders and a fourth rounder for Streit, MacDonald, Grossmann and Kubina, they could have packaged all those pick together for a legit top pair guy of higher quality. Or held those picks and used a 1st rounder to land one.

Mark Alt is right handed. Any chance he will make it this year?

Mark Alt is right handed. Any chance he will make it this year?
- DTalley

The scuttlebutt seems to lead towards the idea that he is the closest to being ready for a shot.

It would cause a lot of teams to reshape things. But replacing Pronger with a bunch of lesser parts has left them with an expensive, but unspectacular defense that still needs a number one defenseman to anchor things. Maybe instead of trading three second rounders, three third rounders and a fourth rounder for Streit, MacDonald, Grossmann and Kubina, they could have packaged all those pick together for a legit top pair guy of higher quality. Or held those picks and used a 1st rounder to land one.
- Jsaquella

The thing is teams don't trade number one dmen for just picks. They aquired guys like Streit, MacDonald and Grossmannn to fill roles since there are no number one dman out there. They put their best effort forward with the OS to Weber.

Kind of on a different note but you think there is any way the NHL and players union comes up with a way to deal with career ending injuries. i understand the whole thing with 35+ deals but I think there should be some sort of exception when it comes to injuries that are a result of someone elses play. Guys like Savard and Pronger were done in by others actions. I think they should be able to move on without the whole LITR sharade.

Kind of on a different note but you think there is any way the NHL and players union comes up with a way to deal with career ending injuries. i understand the whole thing with 35+ deals but I think there should be some sort of exception when it comes to injuries that are a result of someone elses play. Guys like Savard and Pronger were done in by others actions. I think they should be able to move on without the whole LITR sharade.
- J35Bacher

Not 100% sure I would group Prongs and Savard into the same group there. Savard took a cheap shot while Pronger just took a freak puck to the face but wasn't the result of a dirty play.....

They still need to do something about the charade however. No reason he shouldn't be able to retire without punishing the team.

I wouldn't trade for Bogo. Too inconsistent and injury prone.

Kind of on a different note but you think there is any way the NHL and players union comes up with a way to deal with career ending injuries. i understand the whole thing with 35+ deals but I think there should be some sort of exception when it comes to injuries that are a result of someone elses play. Guys like Savard and Pronger were done in by others actions. I think they should be able to move on without the whole LITR sharade.
- J35Bacher

Absolutely. It is pretty easy to determine the difference between signing a guy with bad knees to a long term deal to circumvent cap structure and a guy who suffers a freak injury that ends his career VERY prematurely.

Mark Alt is right handed. Any chance he will make it this year?
- DTalley

The flyers themselves never seem to talk about him. I doubt it unless he has a great camp.

I want to see a much improved phantoms team next year. It's more important than anything the flyers do if they keep the laughtons and ghosts down

Not 100% sure I would group Prongs and Savard into the same group there. Savard took a cheap shot while Pronger just took a freak puck to the face but wasn't the result of a dirty play.....

They still need to do something about the charade however. No reason he shouldn't be able to retire without punishing the team.
- vipeviper

Wasn't Prongs a high stick and then a high hit into the boards?

Either way i just meant it wasn't like they couldn't play. It was the result of others that caused the injury. Not like someon got a bad back because of age or a knee injury from skating. Just think that these should go to an arbitrator for review for each instance. Both would most likely still play if not for the injury.

The thing is teams don't trade number one dmen for just picks. They aquired guys like Streit, MacDonald and Grossmannn to fill roles since there are no number one dman out there. They put their best effort forward with the OS to Weber.
- J35Bacher

This organization always tries to do something, and are always looking to improve team. They always seem to be in on the majority of trades and UFA rumours.
If they are to trade B Schenn I just hope it is not for an older Dman like Phaneuf. That would be a waste. Bogosian or Myers I could live with, but I am sure the price may be too high. It would probably be 2-3 player deals for these guys.

This organization always tries to do something, and are always looking to improve team. They always seem to be in on the majority of trades and UFA rumours.
If they are to trade B Schenn I just hope it is not for an older Dman like Phaneuf. That would be a waste. Bogosian or Myers I could live with, but I am sure the price may be too high. It would probably be 2-3 player deals for these guys.
- 3flyerkids

It has always been my understanding that this was what has caused all of his head issues: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PPUvWOcaHyg

Someone, please correct me if I'm wrong.

This organization always tries to do something, and are always looking to improve team. They always seem to be in on the majority of trades and UFA rumours.
If they are to trade B Schenn I just hope it is not for an older Dman like Phaneuf. That would be a waste. Bogosian or Myers I could live with, but I am sure the price may be too high. It would probably be 2-3 player deals for these guys.
- 3flyerkids

I think if you could get Bogosian from WPG he could be that top pair guy with Coburn and log major minutes. You also then allow Kimmo to play less as a 2nd or third pair guy this year. Next year you might have a prospect or two step in and I think your starting to see a better shaping d group.

It is about fit, absolutely. The Flyers defense isn't awful as individuals, but how they slot & what they have been and will be asked to do is an issue.

I do think they're spending too much money on the group as a whole, too. Even if the going rate for a guys like Schenn, Grossmann or MacDonald is what they are paying, it's far from ideal to be paying that much for three 4/5 defensemen, when the rest of the defense lacks a real number one guy
- Jsaquella

Very true

However if they do go into this season with the same 6 as last year, I still think they can be a solid playoff team provided that the forwards commit to playing better defensively and work hard to keep the gaps short.